Debbie:

[0:01] You work with a very specific and high-pressure demographic. These are founders, executives, and builders in Web3 and blockchain. What are the unique patterns of burnout and stress you see in this space compared to more traditional industries?

Oscar :

[0:15] I think it's an industry that is pushing the forefront of technology and is constantly evolving in a speed that is, I think, unmatched. This sector is laying the rails for the future and will be of extreme importance for the future. And I think that constant innovation and being at that forefront, it doesn't matter how much you read, it doesn't matter how much you study, you will always feel like you're behind.

Debbie:

[0:39] What's the real hidden cost of burnout, especially for tech founders who are expected to move fast and break things?

Oscar :

[0:46] I heard a good quote the other day, you have a million problems until you have a health problem, then you only have one problem. And I think most people overlook that when you are healthy and working and you have 10,000 things you need to take care of. But then when you actually run into the wall, you realize, oh my God, this beautiful vessel that I was given, I have misused, I have abused. And now I find myself not working properly anymore. So that will go out over your relationship.

Oscar :

[1:14] Definitely over your work, it might take six months to a year. You might never be able to be back at work. So, for you as a person and a human being, I think the costs are beyond any price tag you could ever imagine.

Ciara:

[1:28] You have one life and all parts of it are connected. And I think connecting all parts is the important piece for overall health and satisfaction and success in business.

Debbie:

[1:40] Welcome to Skin in the Game. Today we're exploring a story that began on a remote beach in India and is now reshaping leadership in the high-stakes world of Web3. I'm your host, Debbie Go. Joining me are Ciara Nicole and Oscar Sundman, the co-founders of Vita Veda. Their journey was forged in the aftermath of losing their parents in their early 20s, a shared grief that led them to the ancient practices of yoga and breath work. Now, through their Be The Change retreat, they're helping ambitious leaders avoid burnout by equipping them with a powerful combination of ancient wisdom and modern strategy to scale faster, thrive, and lead without burning out. Ciara and Oscar, welcome to the show.

Ciara:

[2:28] Thank you so much for having us, Debbie.

Oscar :

[2:30] Thanks for having us.

Debbie:

[2:31] You both met at a crossroads in your life. Take us to that time in India. How did that shared search for meaning become the foundation for Vita Veda's philosophy?

Oscar :

[2:44] So I lost my mother at the age of 21. It turned my life upside down. It was a huge existential awakening for me that really put me into a place of pondering upon the big questions. So I read all the philosophy I could get my hands on, all the mysticism of the world, all the creation myths of the world and what rang truest to me was yoga because it became like an experiment your body became the laboratory and you became the scientist start doing this breathing exercises and you could start observing what goes on within yourself and you would feel instant feedback on the experiments you conducted on yourself and in yourself so that led me to India to study it further and then to be able to teach what had really helped me in life to others.

Ciara:

[3:37] Similar story on my side. My dad passed away also when I was 21. And I found that experience of being so up close and personal with death incredibly sobering. And it really brought the bigger questions, the existential questions of life right to the forefront. You know, like many of us, I think always imagined, at least subconsciously, that my parents would just be here forever. They were the people that brought me into the world. And so when that was cut short, it brought questions about life in its entirety life and death and the cycle and how it all works that actually put me into an intense anxiety or it brought up a lot of anxious thoughts and depressive thoughts and that's what led me to yoga initially because I needed a pause button on the whirring of my mind and so I found the first class and in the first shavasana I remember just being like ah Because it was quiet for the first time in weeks, just for a few minutes. So at that point, I was hooked. I also learned to teach, which then brought me to India, which is where Oscar and I met, on a beach and go.

Debbie:

[4:46] What has yoga brought you in terms of the peace and the calmness you needed after that experience of loss?

Ciara:

[4:55] Yoga is as Oscar said it's a scientific process which I find really exciting because it doesn't rely on dogma it doesn't rely on you have to memorize certain things to be able to feel the benefits and it's not about trying to get somewhere else it's about becoming as comfortable as possible where you are here and now and I found that incredibly empowering especially as it doesn't require anyone else or anything else so in those early days after my dad passed away it wasn't uncommon for me when feeling anxious to be in a bathroom at a friend's house doing some yogic breathing exercises or some postures where I could fit in the room to be able to kind of calm my mind down and it was at that point I realized it was such a superpower and I'm really grateful to yoga for that because it's this kind of innate relationship with yourself you can take it anywhere. You can do it wherever you need to, and it can always bring you back to baseline. And I find that incredibly empowering.

Debbie:

[5:57] When you decided to turn this philosophy into a business, what was the sacrifice you had to make to bring Vita Veda to life?

Oscar :

[6:05] I think I had to Let's go of everything else and be like, okay, let's put our minds together. Let's put our hearts together. Let's pull and let go of past endeavours and past wants and needs, like my own business.

Ciara:

[6:21] Because we both had individual businesses, didn't we, before Vita Beda? So Oscar had breathwork coaching business and I had a coaching business for young teachers. And we've definitely not let the essence of those go altogether. We've just decided, actually, we were trying to go in multiple directions. So, yeah, to channel together was really nice.

Oscar :

[6:43] For any entrepreneur that tries to walk the untrodden path, there are leaps of faith that one must take. There are insecurities, there are doubts, there are moments where you're like, oh, my God, would it be nicer to just walk a path that the majority walks out of ease, out of comfort? So I guess comfort we have sacrificed.

Ciara:

[7:02] Yeah I would add on to that timelines which has been a big thing for me you know as you said you see your peers maybe going through certain life milestones and chapters and uh you know people ask you how things are going and there's never any set timelines because it's an untrodden path so there's not really any markers so you can't say oh yeah in six months we're gonna have done x and in a year we'll be here so for me that's been a big thing of having to let go of projected expectations of where I should be and what other people think we should be doing, which probably actually isn't what they think at all. It's what I think they think. So yeah, having to let go of certain identities and kind of surrender to the unfolding of the unknown.

Debbie:

[7:48] Part of it is also letting go of other people's expectation of you and just forging your own path. Now, building a business with a partner is challenging at the best of times, what's been the toughest part of leading a company together? And what kept your partnership resilient?

Oscar :

[8:06] Communication, communication, communication. And I think Honouring each other's strengths, but also being humble to each other's weaknesses and realizing them and being able to talk about them without being like, this is better or worse or superior or inferior. Just like, okay, this is a place where you really shine. Do your best at it. If there is a place where you don't shine so well, I'll carry the load on.

Ciara:

[8:36] Yeah, I think for me, it's a bit of a paradox of the thing that makes our business vision and business mission so powerful is equally what can make it challenging, which is that we are partners in business and in life. And so if there's ever any tension in our relationship, there's also tension in our business because we're the same people. But equally, I think that's been a let go of behaviours and conflicts that are as we would say below the floor because it's just not worth the turmoil time wasted the energy wasted from moving forward with momentum so for me at least it's been a good accountability tool and we can't let this get into disaster zone you know if there's some tension in the relationship because it's going to influence and infect the momentum that we're creating in our business. So it's been good to kind of keep a standard of harmony and harm, which has been a journey.

Oscar :

[9:34] Oh, for sure.

Ciara:

[9:35] That's not going to click of the fingers.

Debbie:

[9:37] You work with a very specific and high-pressure demographic. These are founders, executives, and builders in Web3 and blockchain.

Debbie:

[9:45] What are the unique patterns of burnout and stress you see in this space compared to more traditional industries?

Oscar :

[9:51] I think it's an industry that is pushing the forefront of technology and is constantly evolving in a speed that is, I think, unmatched. Even though all sectors are facing development and innovation, this sector is laying the rails for the future and will be of extreme importance for the future. How money will be transferred, how... Web3 will look. So they're the nitty gritty of reshaping the whole system as we know it. And I think that constant innovation and being at that forefront, it doesn't matter how much you read, it doesn't matter how much you study, you will always feel like you're behind. And that in itself is a huge pressure and weighs you down.

Ciara:

[10:35] Yeah, absolutely. There are similarities across industries, of course, when it comes to stress and burnout. And I think you touched on there of this feeling of not enough knowledge, not enough confidence, not enough competence. But I think in tech and specifically in Web3, cryptocurrency, it's just the speed is intensified. So it's like the speed is turned up on all of those pieces that you see across all sectors.

Ciara:

[11:02] So I think that's where there's, yeah, more of an urgent need.

Debbie:

[11:05] Let's zero in on that burnout. A lot of people are talking about it. We hear it all the time. But from your perspective, what's the real hidden cost of burnout, especially for tech founders who are expected to move fast and break things?

Oscar :

[11:20] I heard a good quote the other day. You have a million problems until you have a health problem. Then you only have one problem. And I think most people overlook that when you are healthy and working and you have 10,000 things you need to take care of. But then when you actually run into the wall, you realize, oh, my God, this beautiful vessel that I was given, I have misused. I have abused and now I find myself not working properly anymore. So that will go out over your relationship. Definitely over your work. It might take six months to a year. You might never be able to be back at work. So for you as a person and a human being, I think the costs are beyond any price tag you could ever imagine. And for the company that needs to hire a new person and do the whole retraining and the culture at the workplace, if you have people burning out, it's not very appealing or welcoming to people to join. And if that's the culture, then people will start leaving. I would say it's hard to really put a price tag on, especially on the personal level.

Ciara:

[12:23] I think for me, it's sort of the mission and watering down and diluting of the company mission. Because as you've just alluded to, stopping and starting, it's breaking momentum of actually, you know, what you set up that company to do in the first place. Which I imagine was to innovate and to create big change and then as you said Oscar on the personal level which is really where it sits for me as the big clincher is kind of personal relationship, health, joy, creativity, all of the things that in my opinion make life and that company vision in the first place worth living and worth enjoying. I know there was a point in my journey where I was in a therapy session and she asked me You know, who's going to be there to celebrate with you when you get there, wherever there is, if you've neglected all of your friendships along the way? Because I would be in a cycle of every few months being like, do I actually have any friends? That really landed with me because it's true. What's the point when you get there, if you've neglected and kind of left all the other parts of your life behind? I don't think it's going to be very fun or very enjoyable to reach that milestone, to reach that peak if you're there alone. And so that for me is the hidden cost of just burning down, burning all of your

Ciara:

[13:43] bridges and all of the other things that make life really enjoyable and joyful.

Debbie:

[13:48] Your retreats combine breathwork, movement and mindset mastery. That's a very specific formula. How did you land on that combination and how do you measure whether it's actually working for your clients?

Oscar :

[14:01] I think after taking hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people through yoga teacher training, where we taught people from all walks of life to actually become yoga teachers so they could then spread the knowledge and the wisdom. We realized that, okay, bringing a full yoga teacher training to a work base isn't possible. But what are the golden nuggets? What did we see from our teacher training that actually created results that caused people to... Reflect, to release, and to regulate. Rattwork was one of them. Movement, obviously. And then the structure part is where we blended the Western and the Eastern. We said, okay, it can become a little bit too... Mystical with only these practices. So what happens if we integrate those practices with actual measurable steps and then we do it?

Ciara:

[14:54] To give some context to that for anyone that doesn't know, so yoga teacher training, in the format that we did, it will be a month-long intensive where a group of people come together, live together, and they train to become yoga teachers. And we'll take them through a series of different classes, including physical practice, breathwork practices philosophy learning how to teach and facilitate and many more workshops that gave us the opportunity as oscar said with hundreds of people from all different walks of life to test out all of these different frameworks and aspects of yoga or leadership training in a quick turnaround so there was a lot of refinement and iteration in a short space of time over and over again, which has allowed us to really see what works the most powerful.

Oscar :

[15:45] In our wardrobe, we have like a 30 centimeters worth of feedback forms that we have sifted through to realize, okay, what worked, what landed, how did this affect this person and what did they take out of this?

Ciara:

[15:57] And of course, it's through our own experimentation. So we never teach anything that we've not done personally, either briefly or at length. That's something that's very, very important to me from a sense of integrity that I'll never ask somebody to do something that I'm not willing to at least try. And then in terms of how we can see that works obviously gathering the feedback but also on a bigger scale of just seeing how people's lives transform so I set up my coaching program to stay in touch with and continue to support the leaders that we trained after that intensive training and you can just see people's lives totally transform within the space of three six twelve months from their working habits from the relationships with their families their health, their eating habits, their thought habits, etc, etc.

Ciara:

[16:47] So I'd say the lived experience for me is always where the proof is.

Debbie:

[16:53] I think a lot of people have a misconception about what you do. Some might say that breathwork, yoga, and dismiss it as a fluff in the business context. So how do you bridge the gap between this inner work and the hard metrics that business care about, like ROI and team performance.

Ciara:

[17:11] I think that's a good point to bring back what you said before, which is you'll have a million problems until you have a health problem and then you only have one. So I think the biggest ROI is can you actually show up to do your job effectively? Because if you can't, none of the other metrics matter because you can't be there and you can't form and you can't execute. So I think the biggest misconception is, as you said, that it's fluff or that it's woo-woo or that it's a nice to have, but it's not a need to have. But I don't think health is a nice to have. It's absolutely critical.

Oscar :

[17:48] No, I think you nailed it. You can go into like for every dollar that you spend on wellness, you get $5 back. I think actually sitting down for a moment, contemplating, reflecting, doing a little bit of self-inquiry, and you will realize the truth of this day. You have a million problems in one. Until you have a health problem, then you'll be at one. And then if you realize, I think the rest falls away.

Debbie:

[18:12] In the leadership space now, we've seen a lot of executive coaches, consultants. What made you realize that this blend of breathwork, movement, mindset was the missing piece from the traditional executive coaching?

Ciara:

[18:27] The holistic aspect is the piece that separates. We don't operate on theory. We haven't chased tons of qualifications over here or accreditations over there. Everything that we've put together has been from lived experience, both personally and from the people that we've guided.

Ciara:

[18:47] And something I'm extremely passionate about is dismantling this idea of the personal versus the professional life. You have one life and all parts of it are connected. And I think connecting all parts is the important piece for overall health and satisfaction and success in business. As I mentioned before with the relationships, you know, if your relationships aren't intact, it is going to be an energy drain on your performance at work, whether you like that or not, Whether you think about it or not, it is. And so we've put together a framework that considers all aspects of your life, not only what's happening in work or at work, but what's happening before,

Ciara:

[19:28] during and after to make sure that you're supported to be able to excel. Well so yeah that holistic and connection of all pieces I think is a big thing that separates us which was largely developed from living in yoga teacher training because it wasn't like oh we'll see you for an hour and your lunch break at work no we'll live with you for 24 hours so we can see your habits when you're eating when you're talking when you're thinking you know we can see you on a 24-hour clock and we're working with all of you if you like not just the part that you bring to a one-hour session and and

Oscar :

[20:03] Then i think those three things combined makes you a fantastic leader of yourself you become really self-led after working with us and having that ability to lead yourself to regulate yourself and to be able to sit down and start simply just observing what goes on within you you stop becoming less reactive to the world around so i think That was something that I really appreciated, giving and teaching, self-leadership.

Ciara:

[20:33] And that makes me think of when Oscar and I, early when we met, you said something to me that really stuck, which was in the way you do anything, you do everything. And I think for me, that's the aspect of self-leadership is it's not just about what you say or what you do when people are watching or when you're in that high stakes moment. It's about who you are when you're at home at 7pm. Nobody's watching. And I think that's incredibly important. It's that holistic aspect of, yeah, something I like to say is lead how you live and live how you lead.

Debbie:

[21:07] I like the holistic approach. Oscar, you focus on breathwork and meditation.

Debbie:

[21:13] And Hira, you bring yoga and healing practices. Can you walk us through how these translate directly into a leader making a better and faster decision under pressure? Can you share a specific example of this transformation in action?

Oscar :

[21:29] 100%. So the technicalities of it is as soon as you bring awareness to your breath, if done correctly, you start activating the prefrontal cortex, which is seen as the seat of high reason. Otherwise, we're more in the amygdala and you're reacting and you're in a state of fear. Often, we take about 25,000 breaths every single day, which is pretty shallow. It activates our sympathetic nervous system, so our fight and flight. If you bring down your breathing to about inhaler 4, exo-4, and you breathe down into the diaphragm, you massage the vagus nerve, which then activates your parasympathetic nervous system, which brings it down.

Ciara:

[22:07] And that you rest and digest.

Oscar :

[22:09] Exactly. So a specific example of this, working with a founder who was innovating a lot, also tackling a relationship, and she showed up to coaching sessions in a state of deep fight and flight. So shallow breathing, anxious, very reactive to the relationship, to the business. It becomes a vicious circle. You realize that, okay, this isn't doing me any good. And then you worry about the worrying, and you start spiraling.

Ciara:

[22:38] And you make in. flippant decisions in the moment which end up causing you know five or six more problems that you then have to deal with because you didn't take the time to actually respond and choose appropriately we

Oscar :

[22:52] Met for the course of three months once a week and getting into the nitty gritty of her breath calming it down making sure that the anxiety and the stress levels went down so the chronic amygdala activation started to subside and she started to rest more and more into the prefrontal cortex the vagus nerve was stimulated by proper breathing parasympathetic response rest and digest from there all of a sudden you realize with a clear mind that a lot of the problems that she had was imaginary and from there so many tears of joy and gratitude for being taught how to just reconnect with the breath and reconnect with yourself.

Ciara:

[23:35] I've got also one of my clients who experienced intense anxiety attacks before she came to work with me, which would paralyze her from being able to move forward with the tasks that needed to be done in her business. And that would put her into a cycle of procrastination and then guilt about procrastinating. An anxiety attack and kind of anxiety spell could then put or out for, you know, anywhere from three to four hours, three to four days in an extreme, perhaps three to four weeks of interrupted stop, start, lack of momentum. And so something I teach specifically within the container is something called a self-soothe strategy or a burnout breaker ritual, if you like, which is to be able to interrupt the spiral of nervous system activation as soon as you notice it so that you can re-root it and redirect it. What that means in real time is being able to cut down, as I say, the three to four day episode into perhaps three to four minutes.

Ciara:

[24:39] So now you're able to get back on the horse and execute whatever it was that you wanted to do or what you were in the middle of doing business-wise, as opposed to scrolling, snacking, Netflix, alcohol. You know, these are the other aspects that people use to try to soothe the nervous system. That's what's happening, even if it's not consciously. When you're using substances like that for stress, it's you trying to soothe your nervous system, which makes sense. And so what we offer is alternative tools to be able to do that in the moment, because obviously it's not conducive to productivity to be drunk, at least not too often. And that's had a massive effect on her. She now doesn't have panic attacks. She's been able to build a coaching program, which is an evergreen model, which is something she's been wanting to do for a long time. And she's now got her own cohort of coaching students. Overall, it is stop the interruption of momentum. That's the tools we offer so that you can keep going rather than this kind of stop-start sensation.

Debbie:

[25:43] It's very inspiring to hear that you're able to help manage those anxiety spells and stress level through breathing and your technique about stopping it and

Debbie:

[25:54] making sure that that gets turned around quickly so that the person becomes more productive. Now, you talked about a time design method in your program. How does this help leaders move beyond efficiency strategies and transform their relationship with time?

Ciara:

[26:13] At the deepest level, it helps them to understand what time is, which is a finite resource that once it's spent, it will never come back. And so a big aspect for me with time design is debunking this myth that time equals money. Thank you.

Ciara:

[26:31] Because it doesn't. Time is infinitely more valuable than money. Money can always be regenerated. You can always create more. You can always multiply it. Once time has been spent, it cannot come back. And so one of the first pieces we do with people in the time design process is taking them into a meditation called the deathbed thesis.

Ciara:

[26:53] And that was largely inspired, at least for me, from watching my dad. And I know you were also with your mom on their deathbed. and all of the questions that arise in that very poignant moment so we guide people to imagine themselves in that position look back on their lives and clarify what are the things that are most important when I'm sat there at the end of my life that I want to look back on and feel content with and satisfied with and how do I want people to remember me and I think what that does is it brings very quickly into the forefront the importance of how you spend your time and it ensures that what you're doing today is actually in alignment with where you would like to see yourself at the end of your life otherwise what can happen is people very easily justify wasting time in whatever means that is for the individual you know always putting it off until tomorrow or next week or until i've got x or until this is lined up perfectly overall it's stressing the important and the preciousness of time and to spend it wisely because it will run out it won't last forever and we've seen that firsthand time

Debbie:

[28:03] Does not equate money i absolutely well you've both been open about the highs and lows of your journey what doubts however did you face when you started building the vita vita and how did you overcome them.

Oscar :

[28:17] I think walking into a room full of people that are not dressed in sweatpants and leggings and Lululemons and instead of suits and ties and important members felt a little bit intimidating. And especially, I think one of the things that made us realize how important the notion of breathing or proper breathing is that even at a yoga teacher training where people who who are practicing yoga, they come down to do, to really invest in it. Most of them have a hard time breathing as well and sitting and contemplating and reflecting. So bringing that into a space where a deep breath might never have been done and people might feel a little bit awkward about not being able to reconnect with diaphragm. So you ask somebody to take a deep breath and it's like this. Chest goes out, belly goes in, which is an opposite breather, which is like, okay, now We need to really, really scale it down to the basics, walking into a room where this is strange and a little bit seeing as we walk definitely was a little bit intimidating

Ciara:

[29:23] Yeah it's like the status isn't it and it feels like oh these are very important official kind of people you like as you said in suits and i think for me what helped to pierce through that is just the things that connect us rather than the things that separate us so the workshop that oscar's referring to there was a gentleman who came in was in a suit he didn't really understand what the workshop was about so there was a little bit of like awkwardness in the beginning when maybe he thought it was going to be quite a technical workshop and then we started talking about meditation and breathing but within you know a few minutes he was sharing about his relationship with one of his children who was 19 and he hadn't been really been around for most of his child's life which he regretted and was reflecting that that time can't come back now that's the time piece once it's gone it's gone and that for me was a real turning point moment of realizing okay just because somebody's in a suit or they have a very important role or title doesn't mean that they're not human and actually there are a few things that I think connect us all which is you know family friends wanting to do our best and wanting to see the people we love do well and when you scale it down to that simple level that helped me to see okay yeah we actually have a solution here that this group of people can really benefit from and not get too caught up in the status or the roles of that.

Oscar :

[30:51] Yeah, no matter how high you climb on the ladder, you will have something that makes you lay up at night or make you dread waking up in the morning.

Oscar :

[30:58] And the inability to handle those things cause a lot of suffering. We feel like we're sitting on the solution.

Debbie:

[31:04] I agree with you that no matter how high you are in the corporate ladder, We all share the same worries. We all share the same aspirations. So there's more to connect than divide us. And one thing that really struck me as well, Oscar, you mentioned about breathing. It's something we often take for granted. Yet I've noticed personally, when I get stressed, my breathing becomes shallow. And when I become more intentional with my breathing, then you can feel the calmness settling in.

Ciara:

[31:36] That deeper breathing

Debbie:

[31:39] Exercise totally resonates with me.

Ciara:

[31:42] You can access it from wherever you are instantly and i think that's what's so powerful and as you said Debbie you instantly start to feel okay you know let's get some clarity and let's move forward from a place of relaxation and calm

Debbie:

[31:58] Exactly because then you can perform better. Thank you for all the examples that you've provided. I was wondering, what's the most profound transformation you've witnessed in a client that reaffirm why you do this work?

Oscar :

[32:11] There has been so many times where clients have come up and literally cried out of gratitude. And say like, thank you so much for helping me to regulate this stress, this chronic stress that I've been carrying for as long as I can remember. And had no idea how to deal with it. But to be able to sit down and to allow this first, I think, flood of sadness of what has been held on to so hard, and then joy for releasing it. The amount of those encounters are beyond count.

Ciara:

[32:43] Yeah, I think for me, it's a whole host of people we've worked with. Although the kind of scenarios have been slightly different costumes, the same theme is, as you said before, Oscar, this kind of self-leadership. So I've had clients that have been able to stop pharmaceutical medication altogether, even though they tried multiple times before. There was one girl that came to need him who had it called when he was part of vertigo she was experiencing intense dizziness just come on randomly for a few months and it just disappeared during the training and there's been a lot of moments like that and the key connector for me is that people realize oh there's something that i can do for myself from wherever i am i don't have to rely on medication or doctors or people with certain titles I have access to a power within me at all times and so to see some of those breakthroughs or a lot of those breakthroughs and for people to realize they are their own leader and they have so much charge over their own circumstances rather than feeling a bit like a victim and that for me is incredibly inspiring to witness and be a part of because no one can take that away from you.

Debbie:

[33:57] Looking forward what is the change you hope Vita Veda brings to the culture of leadership, especially in the innovative and often volatile world of Web3 and blockchain?

Oscar :

[34:07] That help is a need to have, not a want to have. So changing the work culture and honouring and really lifting up the need of a proper help, both physically and mentally.

Ciara:

[34:20] And spiritually and emotionally. Yeah, I think for me it would be to redefine leadership entirely. We would really like to integrate and bridge this gap between Eastern philosophy and Western technology or Western innovation. In the East, they are tapped into the importance of spiritual practice and life beyond simply the material world. That also has its downsides. You know, there aren't always provisions or systems in place to take care of people effectively and efficiently. And here in the West, we have mastered innovation and technological advancements, but we forget the importance of spirituality and the immaterial, the connection to self, the connection to family, to friends. And so I think if we can find a way to cherry pick the best parts of both of those approaches and bring them together, leaders, but also humanity are going to be fixed in a much better position than we are today. And I think we could do really great things whilst being healthy and vital rather than having to pick one or the other.

Debbie:

[35:27] Your parents' passing was the catalyst for this journey. So how do you honour their memory through your work today?

Oscar :

[35:36] I think showing up every day, doing my best, walking the untrodden path and really trying to pave a path that is unique, allowing this unique expression known as Oscar to flourish and to bloom in the world and allowing my experience. Fingerprint to be left as uniquely expressed as physically possible.

Ciara:

[36:02] Similarly for me, it's being consistent in checking in that we're living our deathbed thesis. We're always checking in with each other that the trajectory of our lives and how we're spending our time today is in alignment with how we want to look back on our lives at the end of our lives and know that, yeah, we lived in a way that was true to our values and that meant something to us that for me is the best way to honor their memories is to live life as fully as possible and what that means to us for

Debbie:

[36:31] For the high achiever listening who feels like they're running on empty what is the first small step that they can take today to start reclaiming that energy and clarity.

Oscar :

[36:40] I would say take three big breaths into the nose into the belly big left the chest then purse the lips and bring those through that little hole that you make, which it was.

Ciara:

[36:53] It's like you're blowing up a big balloon in the belly and then you're letting the air out.

Oscar :

[37:00] Possible the exhalation double the amount in length of the inhalation wherever you are throughout the day just reconnect with your breath deep inhalation slow exhalation that will start rewiring your mind to your breath and becoming aware of it and you will feel the the effects of the sign of the long exhalation that really activates parasympathetic system which is your rest and digest so the more you will train that the more you will become aware of your breath and the sooner you will be able to find a rest throughout the day and by self-researching everything and

Ciara:

[37:35] Simply aside from all the science you'll just feel better so just take three deep breaths and then notice how you feel and that's it it doesn't have to be more complicated than that

Debbie:

[37:48] Three deep breaths and then the exhalation should be twice longer than your inhalation.

Oscar :

[37:54] Exactly. So if you count to mentally to four on your inhalation, then you count to eight on the exhalation. You might start with six.

Ciara:

[38:02] Two and four even.

Oscar :

[38:04] But the more aware you will become of the diaphragm and the lungs and intercostal muscles that actually control the breathing, the better you will be at controlling it. So I think a lot of yoga teachers teach the classic box breath. So you inhale for four, you hold for four, you exhale for four, and you hold for four. For a lot of people, that's a challenge. But the more... The more you can extend that as well. So I could easily do it like a 12, 12, 12, 12.

Ciara:

[38:30] I can't. I have small lungs.

Debbie:

[38:32] Wow. Yeah me too. Your advanced Oscar

Ciara:

[38:38] You have big lungs.

Debbie:

[38:40] To our listeners who are still sitting on the bench thinking about, should I live my life holistically or should I perform as what is expected of me?

Ciara:

[38:49] I would say you don't have to choose. you can do both and actually creating some empty space and calming down your nervous system, I promise you, is going to allow you to perform and excel much quicker and much further than you could otherwise. I know it seems paradoxical, but empty space is crucial for 10x thinking and crucial for creative insight to be received you know everybody's got an experience of where they've been trying to solve a problem and they've been going at it and going at it and going at it and the the answer or the aha moment never comes while you're firing away it comes when you go and take a shower or when you're driving on your way home it always comes in the in-between moment oh that's it there's what I should try. And it's that same phenomenon that you can intentionally create that kind of eureka space, if you like. So just include some more pockets of empty space. Nobody's saying you need to give up everything and move to a cave in the Himalayas, but you can include some of that emptiness and some of that peace in your daily life while you continue to execute and perform at work.

Oscar :

[40:04] And to the listeners that think they have their shit under control, find a comfortable seated position Close your eyes and sit for 10 minutes. Just sit there peacefully and in bliss. I think meditation is maybe mystified. We call it contemplation. So for those 10 minutes, without moving your body, without fidgeting, without checking your phone, without standing up, contemplate. Allow this mind library to be re-sorted and reorganized. And you will realize that, oh my God, this probably needs to be done more often. In the beginning it might feel intimidating there will be thoughts everywhere there will be things that needs to be done but i will promise you that will settle with time and the whole goal of yoga is distilling of the fluctuations of the mind the thoughts are the fluctuations and they will become still at the end of your yoga journey.

Debbie:

[41:03] Ciara and Oscar, thank you for sharing your story and your work with us, you are a living proof that sometimes the thing that breaks you is exactly what you need to break through.

Debbie:

[41:14] For leaders out there, especially in the fast-paced world of tech and Web3, check out Vita Veda's Vita Change Retreat. It's not just about sidestepping burnout, it's about reshaping how you lead and live. You can find all the links to their social channels in our show notes. Thank you, Ciara and Oscar.

Oscar :

[41:34] Thank you, Debbie.

Ciara:

[41:34] Thanks for having us.

Oscar :

[41:36] It’s been a pleasure.

Debbie:

[41:37] So the courage to build a business from personal transformation and help others find clarity in chaos. That's what having skin in a game is all about.