[00:00:00] Keith: Ella is evolving. She's no longer just a coffee robot. The architecture was built based on coffee, but when we look at the breadth and scope of what she can do is food service, We want to be very laser focused on being a domain expert in food service. This whole industry is $3 trillion of food service hospitality.

[00:00:21] Keith: And it's time where robots become commonplace. It's beginning and we want to ride that wave. We were early adopters and we created that. But in the last one and a half, two years, you've seen ChatGPT, you've seen generative AI. That layer is what's missing in the food service industry. 

[00:00:43] Debbie : Today we're diving into the world of robotics and believe it or not, coffee. Our guest is Keith Tan,

[00:00:49] Debbie : the founder and CEO of Crown Digital, a company revolutionizing the F&B industry with their robotic barista, Ella.

[00:00:57] Debbie : Keith's journey is remarkable. He left his [00:01:00] successful career in wealth management to take a leap of faith, building a business from the ground up.

[00:01:05] Debbie : Faced with the challenges of scaling a traditional coffee shop, he came up with a game changing solution, automation.

[00:01:12] Debbie : Now his AI powered barista is brewing the future, one perfectly crafted cup at a time.

[00:01:19] Debbie : So grab your caffeine fix as we chat with Keith about the challenges of developing cutting edge technology and his bold vision for the future of coffee retail.

[00:01:28] Debbie : Keith, welcome to the show. So glad to have you

[00:01:32] Keith: Thanks for having me, Debbie. Excited to be here.  

[00:01:34] Debbie : Let's get started. Can you tell us a bit about your background and what led you to found Crown Digital? I'm curious how your wealth management experience played into your approach to entrepreneurship. 

[00:01:48] Keith: That was back in 2015 and just got married and I was helping a lot of entrepreneurs who had the wealth to manage their family money. And I [00:02:00] was 35 years old and I was telling myself, you know, I've got to be an entrepreneur myself, build a business for myself before it's too late. And I have this deep love for coffee. I host people. And I thought, let's open up a cafe. And I went through the whole journey of discovering coffee machines and started Crown Coffee in 2016. Back then I already knew the challenges of labor shortage in Singapore.

[00:02:27] Keith: And I thought, I have a better way. Everyone's like, okay, we got a better way to do it. Cut down on the labor by automating with coffee machines and all that , which I did. And that little cafe grew We have four stores. My first location happened to be nestled next to a lot of big tech companies like Intel.

[00:02:45] Keith: So we became the place for lunch and coffee, and that's in the intersection, because our second outlet was in DHL's Innovation Center, and that's where I was introduced to one of the earlier co bots, called [00:03:00] Baxter and being in that coffee business and hosting a lot of clients, big tech, and they're talking about the future robotics and how the world is going to change. And then also facing a challenge in scaling my business being a brick and mortar, cafe operations. I asked myself there's got to be a better way. I came into this business, you know, it's obviously scaling. People love it. But I couldn't scale me. There's only one Keith, you know, being an owner, operator, that's just me. Can I then leverage on technology? so all these elements came together with a problem statement of scaling and labor shortage in Singapore and being next to the big tech, knowing them and coming together with Crown Digital.

[00:03:43] Keith: So Crown Digital was formed in 2018 to digitalize our operations and building the next gen automation solutions, and we evolved from there and created Ella.

[00:03:56] Debbie : I can imagine that, having this robot barista is [00:04:00] quite challenging. What were the first concrete actions you took in terms of turning Ella from concept to reality? Any memorable milestones?

[00:04:09] Keith: The one that really hit me and what really triggered me to do it was when I think it was early 2017, it was a Monday morning, we're starting business at 8:30, and I had a shortage of staff because it was raining everyone was calling sick. It was really tough.

[00:04:27] Keith: I had to go down, I'm a hands on guy. I'll do it what's glaring was my HR and finance lady. She had to, be a waitress, Because she had to fill in the gap. And this is a real problem for F&B owners in Singapore. And I think a lot of them will agree that's the constant challenge they face every day. That's when I said, we got to find a solution for this. It's got to stop. And I looked at, you know, I'm going to have something that I can build. And it's automated and it's going to be there

[00:04:57] Keith: 24 7 for me and reliable. That was the turning point. And then I set off the journey looking for technology partners to solve it. So I, as an owner, business owner, I have a problem statement. It was a discovery as well. Like what I did for coffee, going to trade shows, looking at everything about robotics and building up the connections.

[00:05:21] Keith: Creating Ella was wow, I had a lot of support from my customers, like Intel. I was given the chance to pitch about it in one of their partner events. And they kind of match made me with a lot of their ecosystem partners and worked the concept going because back then I'm not from a tech background. 

[00:05:42] Keith: I didn't even know how to write a job description to hire a CTO. I was a business owner invested in it. And I want to solve the problem and figuring out along the way people came along and help me out. Today we are a full stack tech company.

[00:05:57] Debbie : Building something like Ella must have [00:06:00] been a massive undertaken. As you said, you weren't a tech person to begin with. So what were some of the biggest challenges you face in, identifying Ella, developing and launching her as a robot barista concept? 

[00:06:12] Keith: Massive. On hindsight, looking at all the challenges that we've went through funding is always the biggest challenge, how do you get funds for a hardware startup? It was really tough. Initial interest was there. The ecosystem in Singapore there were people who were willing to fund us at an early stage, and I'll talk about that later about funding landscape and the ecosystem. At that time I had the end goal which is repetitive tasks should be automated. There are collaborative robots out there. And all I have to do back then was, can I eliminate me? I have customers that come on a daily basis. I know exactly what they want. It's always consistent. What they're looking for is speed to service and consistency. and these are our clients, customers that come on a daily basis. [00:07:00] And that process should be automated. And instead of you talking to me on the till ordering could you do it on a mobile app? So you need to build a mobile app. You have to be on a cloud, and the robots will be interfaced with your mobile app payments, And you have to build a physical product of robots, building them to integrate with coffee machines and talking to each other, it became bigger and bigger.  

[00:07:25] Keith: The whole ambition to solve that problem I realized I had to solve a lot of problems. The hardware issues, and these are emerging technologies, they're all just beginning to come together, and that novel idea to piece that together is doable, but putting everything together to be a seamless solution, and going through the journey of building a team solving those problems with a very bootstrapped kind of funding environment was extremely challenging. But we learned so much. We failed many times but we always [00:08:00] overcome. And that's how we evolved and build a full autonomous system. But what's next is the age of GenAI. AI agents that we are now developing and it's all coming together into physical AI. Very exciting space.

[00:08:19] Keith: We went through so much like, how do you even hire the first group of software engineers? 

[00:08:25] Keith: In Singapore, you need to have hardware background. You have to be industrial design. You need to build an entire system. and you need to productize it and turn it into a product. 

[00:08:34] Keith: You need to do manufacturing. there are two worlds, the world of automation in the last ten years or more. Robots are not new. Robots been around for 40, 45 years. They're building in the factories. But what we are trying to do is to bring the robots into our daily lives, interfacing with people. And it's a very dynamic environment. It's very different from a factory where it's [00:09:00]like production line, and it's the output is kind of constrained right into that production line. In a real world context You're using robots to prepare coffee that you're consuming real time and she's running autonomously, taking your payments, there's a lot of trust. you need to order is mobile app there's user interface, there's user experience. And you are introducing robots to replace something that's very human. 

[00:09:27] Keith: That is a big leap from traditional robotics putting it into that. and working in a very dynamic environment frothing fresh milk, you know, grinding coffee beans. You need to have the domain expertise in running a cafe, You need to have deep expertise on your coffee, and how you're going to maintain the quality consistency. You need have robotics background to automate that process. And you need be a software company where you can build the e-commerce and mobile app. The whole experience on the app and combining all [00:10:00] that into a seamless experience. It wasn't apparent to me initially. I just wanted to solve the problem . I didn't think how hard it was. And as you go through it, you know problems and problems, and then you realize, you're going to do this and solve it and things just got bigger and bigger. And that's how we built that. You know, really from zero. 

[00:10:22] Debbie : There's a whole ecosystem, different aspects of the business that you really have to be on top off. what was your learning curve? how were you able to grasp the whole ecosystem and make it a seamless experience for your customer? 

[00:10:35] Keith: We had to solve a lot of problems We had to build the ecosystem because it wasn't there, and you couldn't go to market without solving all those things. We had a huge challenge ahead of us to be a software company, to be a hardware robotics automation company and also being a coffee company at the same time you know, to go to market and building the right drink, [00:11:00] the taste have to be good, you have to process payments and go to market right as a brand. 

[00:11:06] Keith : It was crazy, you know it have been easier if we were just solving the robotics piece of the puzzle and maybe selling the robotic solution to somebody who has a bigger vision to turn that into a concept or a retail concept. But because it's so new, we had to do it end to end. We had to do the entire ecosystem to promote this, future because it's not like it's a solution that everyone knows and they could jump in and fill in the gaps.

[00:11:33] Keith : No one's there. We are new. You don't know what you don't know, and you have to put that together and prove that that could work. Oh, it was hard. It was hard. But, I loved it. The whole, journey and things evolve. You solve a problem, you move to the next step , and then something comes along, and then you say, hey, you know , this is we should evolve into. And that's how we took it step by step 

[00:11:56] Debbie : You touched upon earlier that coffee is an [00:12:00] experience for consumers. And I imagine there's a lot of care in balancing automation with that of human connection. So how do you approach maintaining that personal touch, even with the tech side of things? Okay, we get a lot right. Initially, Ella solves the speed to service, She is very consistent and, there's no queue right.

[00:12:22] Keith : You literally from your phone, you pay and you grab and go. So what we realized is when you go into a market where you have repeat customers, like the hospitals, corporate offices, where they already knew the whole experience and it really became a very convenient solution for them.

[00:12:42] Keith : They trusted, the coffee is going to taste exactly the way they like it. They can order through the phone and just grab and go. That was easier. You only need to educate them once, they saw the benefits and they just get on with it. But for us to bring this to mainstream, there's a lot of [00:13:00] education. And if you were to put it somewhere in the middle of nowhere, 

[00:13:02] Keith : And if they are not educated about it, they may not want to get involved you know, it's not natural for them to just go ahead. It requires a lot of curiosity and that's where brand building the messaging comes in. it's not just solving the problem is you need to let the world know what it's all about. And that becomes very expensive. very challenging because you're building the brand here and you're changing the world. You're changing the way people think. 

[00:13:27] Keith: How people react and it's just not the norm. we are in this space because we believe that's going to be the future. whether the world was ready for it, it was at a point where we were a bit early. We were early adopters and we created that. But in the last one and a half, two years, you've seen ChatGPT, you've seen generative AI. That layer is what's missing in the food service industry hospitality what's keeping them from adopting [00:14:00] robotics wholesale, meaning

[00:14:01] Keith: robots will have a lot more relevance in our daily lives with the layer of Gen AI. Because Gen AI would turn rule based automation robotics into a more human centric kind of, it bridges the gap, You can start now talking to them through large language models, ChatGPT, cloud, all that with robots who are doing the physical work. And this is where I think the intersection of human robot collaboration is going to really take off. Very exciting time. ahead of us right now.

[00:14:40] Debbie: Who would you think your, target consumer is for Ella?

[00:14:44] Keith: So there'll be stages and how we're going to bring this to market. The immediate adopters are the corporate offices. Like here we are in SAP, the staff knows Ella, the minute they parked the car, they're on the app, they ordered a flat white, they come upstairs, coffee's ready, grab and go. [00:15:00] It's the meeting point.

[00:15:01] Keith: And these are straightforward for us you don't have to reinvent the wheel. They understand how it works and they love the efficiency. So we started with that corporate B2B business. We're in SAP, we're in Standard Chartered Bank. We just put one in Amazon's Innovation Center So that B2B space is scaling. And then we went to the hospitals. Hospitals where the doctors and nurses, they need Coffee 24/7 and Ella is the only solution at 3 am in the morning, they got a coffee from the app You know the nurses were ordering the coffee when they get to work at 7:30 in the morning They got off the bus and they're already pre ordering and Ella is dishing out. So from 12 to 6 am, we do a hundred cups autonomously while we're sleeping, Ella is doing business and then

[00:15:46] Keith: 6 to 7 is like 200 done before the day starts. That's where automation really kicks in. And that really makes sense. it's easier for us you know, long, chain stores help them automate because they are facing the [00:16:00] same challenge I do. 

[00:16:01] Keith: I think once you unlock that. so prices are coming down. 

[00:16:05] The cost of robotics are becoming more accessible. in the early days when we first built it was extremely expensive. because you don't have the volumes, you don't have the bargaining power with the suppliers and the ecosystem wasn't ready. So now prices have come down significantly. Prices are becoming more accessible to the big chains. And for us as a company, we've done all these things. We've gone to market ourselves and how are we positioning ourselves? You know, that also comes with the last five years of learnings and the funding landscape and how are we 

[00:16:38] Keith: tweaking our business models to be more B2B. We've built the whole architecture the maturity is there, and with that experience of operating, can we now help the B2B the chains, the large chains to run it and introduce robotics to their processes, their operations and I think that's a huge opportunity.

[00:16:58] Keith: And then as the prices come down because of the volumes that we are scaling globally, small businesses, individuals you know, they could run their own business with Ella. So it is stages, right? We will get there 

[00:17:11] Debbie : I can imagine that scaling a business is a major milestone for any entrepreneur, especially for you with the robotic as relatively new concept. Can you walk us through some of the key moments in Crown Digital's growth and how you plan to navigate those growth phases? 

[00:17:26] Keith: So we're evolving. 2025 is where we're moving to the US. I've just set up our Delaware C Corp. We are still very much Singapore and Asia kind of roots, but the U.S. is where the risk capital and the investors are. Huge opportunity there. We are moving our holding company over to the U.S. We will be a US domicile headquarters. But developing and manufacturing a lot in Asia to tap onto the lower cost space and human capital here in Asia, Malaysia. So that is a big [00:18:00] move. It is necessary. It's been tough as a hardware robotics, deep tech kind of invest startup operating in a country where it's a city state where investors are very different.

[00:18:12] Keith: They are more ROI based, whereas to have ambitions to really change the world and build technology like us, it

[00:18:19] Keith: takes time to mature. So we're not software. We are combination with full stack, right? Hardware, software, Capex, heavy investors here were like, no, no, no, we want the ROI in like next one year. It's not going to be, it is going to take time. I think that the focus is now beginning to come back into the guys who are solving real world, hard to solve problems. We've invested the last five years building robots that can work closely with humans, understands humans and be part of our daily lives. That hard work is done. And what's exciting now is how do you then build that AI agent layer to turn it into very human [00:19:00] level. You know, robots, that's called physical AI. That's getting investors interested. And 2025 is going to the US where the investors are. So my point is a big move for us moving our headquarters to US where we're transferring all of shareholders over there And growing and costing down further and then scaling it into global markets. So defining times, I think there's so many junctures, we first got our seed investment, from East Japan railway company and landing in Japan, during COVID, it was extremely difficult. There's restrictions everywhere and we were so underfunded, so underfunded, but we still deliver No matter what we deliver. And then going through a very difficult phase where, cash flow was tight. It was impossible, survived that, and now continuing the good story, 

[00:19:55] Keith: And scaling globally now. 

[00:19:56] Debbie: What can we expect from Ella is there any plans to [00:20:00] expand to other regions or new corners of the world to introduce new features or products in the near future?

[00:20:05] Keith: So Ella is evolving. She's no longer just a coffee robot. The architecture was built based on coffee, when we look at the breadth and scope of what she can do is food service, We want to be very laser focused on being a domain expert in food service. This whole industry is $3 trillion of food service hospitality.

[00:20:27] Keith: And it's time where robots become commonplace. It's beginning and we want to ride that wave. And we want to be very focused in solving that hospitality and food service automation with GenAI kind of human centric robots, That will evolve beyond just coffee, you know, food preps and all that, because the groundwork has been built. We know how to manipulate robots in real world situations so that's going to expand her capabilities. I just had a bank. I can't tell you whom they were just here. That's why I have a client meeting. They want to [00:21:00] put us in Ella in their branch. I was sharing with them that Gen AI capabilities where you can have natural language, you can literally just talk to Ella. She remembers you. You know, she have all the different turns. I don't want to get too technical, but she's going to be human like close to human like that's where it opens up the opportunities like, okay, Keith, you know, what if a client gets a coffee from Ella wants to have this part of the banking work done, Ella as an agent, she could say, you know, I'm getting you a coffee, while you're waiting what would you like for your banking needs?

[00:21:32] Keith: Can we get you a queue number with the banking department? We could do that. So suddenly the eyes light up like, wait, hang on. So you are like a concierge, I was like, yeah, we could, we just need an agent to automate that part. And they're very excited. And then we can have a knowledge base and share the cloud knowledge base and then we can have updates. So Ella starts to learn and she starts to adapt. And that's where, it opens up the horizon, It's [00:22:00] huge, like, how would she evolve beyond just coffee? I always say, we started this whole thing because of coffee, because it connects people. It's where people gather, they talk, and ideas emerge, and you collaborate over coffee. But we'll continue to evolve beyond that. So, I think the future is incredible with what's happening right now.

[00:22:21] Debbie : The future looks bright, and I love the idea that, I order my coffee and it queues me in the bank, so I don't need to That's very convenient.

[00:22:31] Keith: yeah, there's going to be a lot of disruptions happening and, a lot of things would be very seamless it's going to wow people because it just makes sense. 

[00:22:40] Keith: Let the agent work for you and solve your problems. The next few years, you'll see a lot of disruptions and a lot of new emerging technologies that's going to become very exciting.

[00:22:50] Debbie : What are your thoughts on the future of robotics in the food and beverage industry? you talked about it earlier, but maybe you can expound more about it.

[00:22:59] Keith: So it [00:23:00] hasn't been widespread adoption, Robotics are used to be in the factories. We're bringing that into food service. We're bringing it into more, customer facing. Collaborative robots are been around, but that shift into commercial space has been slow. But I think it's going to accelerate very quickly.

[00:23:23] Keith: In Singapore we have a lot of street food hawker canters. it's on borrowed time. A lot of our parents or grandparents who have been working so hard in the store in the heat, very often you see a lot of hawkers working 15 hours a day, that's going to disappear. they're retiring. They're at their 70s in the next 5 years

[00:23:47] Keith: How are they going to be replaced? We'll lose a culture. the new generation will not take up that job. That's where the emergence of robotics and the acceptance I think the catalyst would really be [00:24:00] Gen AI turning robots into intelligent,

[00:24:03] Keith: adaptive robotics that crosses that human robot barrier, it's gonna bring that together. And that would happen in the next couple of years. 

[00:24:12] Keith: I think you see humanoid robots are going to be out there. It makes absolute sense. And you, you see a lot more robotics automation. So, automating in the software space is, happening already. But the physical robotics, that's the frontier. Right now it's something that a lot of big tech is investing into. Within our lifetime we're going to see robots in our daily lives.

[00:24:35] Debbie : For entrepreneurs who are considering integrating automation into their operations, what advice would you give to them on getting started?

[00:24:43] Keith: Keep an open mind, ready to invest, take the risk. And have a longer term horizon, a longer term kind of mindset. When you're adopting new technologies there will be failures, there will be frustration. But if you have a longer [00:25:00] term trajectory and longer term kind of mindset, then you are in a good place. And that's where you will eventually emerge as a winner. That requires a lot of curiosity, a lot of long term investment, thinking and patience as well. And not letting any setbacks kind of throw you off.

[00:25:20] Keith: Every failure is a learning curve. it's good to fail because you fail, you learn. If you don't fail, you don't learn. You want to fail very quickly and learn very quickly and solve the problem. So if you fail and you learn and you solve, that's good. So that kind of mantra and having that kind of attitude would put you ahead of the curve.

[00:25:40] Debbie : Very inspiring. Keith, you're clearly passionate about what you're doing in the technology. What excites you most about the future of these two worlds fusing together coming together?

[00:25:52] Keith: Very exciting. I can't sleep. Every night I'm working and we're looking at what's next, preparing for it and literally [00:26:00] building it. It's like time is running out. We've so much to do, so much to change the world. And it keeps me excited every minute, We could change the world to make it a better place. And I would love to have Ella serve everybody, you know, make them feel good. And, you can see, a lot of collaboration, a lot of companies that can come together and everyone piecing the puzzle together and making the world a better place. That excites me.

[00:26:27] Debbie : I'm sure there's a great story or two from the development of Ella that hasn't made it into the spotlight. I know you've been busy promoting Ella. So can you tell us anything fun or unexpected about Ella or any anecdote that hasn't made into the spotlight yet?

[00:26:42] Keith: Wow, this is very interesting because our robots are running autonomously so no one's there. We have videos, we could see how 

[00:26:53] Keith: humans are figuring out how to solve things, and we get a lot of laugh, When we looked at what [00:27:00] happened, how did that, anomaly happen and how are the humans working, you know, trying to solve that. A lot of funny moments. 

[00:27:07] Keith: this was a scenario. the regular users, there was a nurse, she ordered on a mobile app.

[00:27:12] Keith: the cup was there, she arrived, she scanned the QR, pigeonhole rotates, she grabs a coffee and go. So there was a customer who was watching her like, hey, you know, she just took the cup off Ella and she gone away. So she went ahead and ordered from the point of sale, which is touchscreen pay for it and she ordered two cups. The first one came in and the second one came in next to each other. she didn't know that she had to scan, so she didn't read the instructions. It wasn't intuitive to her at the time because she saw the previous lady just grab and go. 

[00:27:43] Keith: That was our version three robot. It has a lock on it. You know it's not supposed to open, but somehow she managed to force it open and she managed to get her first cup of coffee 

[00:27:53] Keith: But the second cup next to it was secure, she couldn't open it. You know what she did? She [00:28:00] put her hands in and grab it from behind and took the cup off, We were like how did it happened we replayed that and was like, you know what? Amazing.

[00:28:09] Keith: And everyone was like what? I mean we've seen all sorts of scenarios, 

[00:28:18] Keith: you know what? we laugh about it. we joked about it and we were amused, my team were doing something incredible here, dealing with all these and solving it. And from seeing that we learned how to improve the UI and UX and how to make it more intuitive for them. So then they won't get that issue. But if that didn't happen, we would thought that we are best in the market, right? No, we're not. We could be better, And that’s how you evolve. That keeps us awake because there's so much more you can do. Keep improving.

[00:28:46] Keith: and It's tough because when we first started the 

[00:28:49] Keith: iterations 

[00:28:50] Keith: my industrial designer would kill me, you know, because we build something and then we have to change. I don't know how many changes were made. But I want it to [00:29:00] be failed now. I don't want it to be failed later, right?

[00:29:02] Keith: Do it now. that requires a different mindset You need to be aligned with the long term vision, And, that mindset to solve problems and building the better one. Very challenging because when you're building that and you are trying to cost down and you want to do mass manufacturing, you can't because you, if you have not locked 

[00:29:21] Keith: your design, no one's going to manufacture it at scale, 

[00:29:24] Keith: You need to balance between that and deciding, okay, you know what? It's good enough now. let's start freezing some of the designs, start manufacturing, and go from there. So that's something that I'm conflicted all the time because I want to have the next better thing.

[00:29:39] Keith: I want to improve that because just doing that one will solve so many other problems down the road right. Let's add that in. Let's add that in. So that first few years just before you mature into that, the problem has been solved. Let's look at how to scale, that's a different story, right? But that

[00:29:57] Keith: initial few years was very fun if the funding is there you know, and then if you're dealing with those things and you're iterating and you have no money, that's another ball game, another problem. So I don't want to get into that. It's hard. Going through the difficult time. and not giving up And there's a lot of ups and downs throughout my journey. There's more downs. I mean the ups were good, kept me going. But the downs are lonely, lonely, lonely. And when you're down.

[00:30:26] Keith: yeah, you know, just don't die .

[00:30:30] Debbie : On a light hearted note Keith, I have to ask this, what's your favourite go to coffee order?

[00:30:37] Keith: it's Keith's favourite it's a double shot, a flat white, double shot, no sugar. if you choose Keith favourite, you have no options. It's a double shot latte. That's the way I like it. I think coffee should be consumed without sugar The milk is naturally sweet with the temperature we're frothing it to and enjoy that full bodied chocolatey [00:31:00] flavour of our double shot lattes. That's Keith’s favourite.

[00:31:03] Keith: Sounds like my favourite coffee as well. Before we close, is there anything that you'd like to share with our listeners, Keith? Anything that, you'd like them to be kept abreast with?

[00:31:15] Keith: Follow me on LinkedIn. Look for me Keith Tan Crown. You'll find me. I do a lot of updates on there when go to our website. Watch the space cause Ella's going to come to you, close to you. So follow us. get in touch with me, 

[00:31:29] Debbie : What an incredible conversation, Keith. Thank you for sharing your story with us today. It's clear that Crown Digital is not just changing how we experience coffee. It's also setting a new standard for the F&B industry globally. 

[00:31:44] Keith: Thank you Debbie.

[00:31:46] Debbie : So if you're inspired by Keith's story, I agree with Keith. Make sure to follow him at Crown Digital's journey as they continue to expand and bring Ella to new corners of this world.

[00:31:55] Debbie : You can find more about Keith and his work in the show notes Thanks for [00:32:00] tuning in to Skin in the Game. If you enjoyed this podcast, please subscribe. Leave us a review and share it with someone who loves coffee, tech, or bold ideas. We'll be back next month with another inspiring story. Until then, stay curious, stay bold, and keep brewing those big ideas.