[00:00:00] Debbie: We all know sunscreen is a must, but let's face it, it often feels like a chore. Greasy, sticky, and that dreaded white cast.

[00:00:10] Debbie : My guest today, Adam Guggenheim, is changing all that. He is the co-founder of Minu, a brand making mineral based SPF, a luxurious experience. Mineral sunscreen is notoriously tricky to formulate. But Minu has cracked the code, blending years of dermatological expertise into elegant skin loving formulas that protect while leaving your skin looking radiant.

[00:00:35] Debbie : In this episode of Skin in a Game, we'll talk to Adam about his journey from the corporate world to building Minu, the science behind making sunscreen feel indulgent, And how Minu is changing the way we think about sun protection. Adam, welcome to the show.  

[00:00:51] Adam: Thank you, Debbie, for having me.

[00:00:53] Debbie : Let's talk about the beginnings of Minu. What was the catalyst that made you trade in the corporate life for the adventure of building your own business?

[00:01:03] Adam: It comes from a lifetime of basically my entire adult life working in the skincare category. Right out of college, I started working at Neutrogena when it was a much smaller company and stayed with it through decades, so really had the unusual experience of going from summer intern to I left as head of the global brand of Neutrogena when it was a much larger entity, both in the United States around the world. And for me, what was really important is understanding the intersection between beauty, skincare and health. And a lot of us in Neutrogena, I definitely felt it was that the most important aspect of skincare was where it had the intersection with sun care. There's a sort of basic level of difference where people even say the language of I wear sunscreen, but I use skincare. And it was a passion of trying to see how do you blend the two together? Because from a dermatological sense, that's the most important thing was using a daily SPF would be the one thing that dermatologists around the world would say is important. And yet there's all kinds of problems, all kinds of reasons why people around the world don't do it. And so that was an opportunity to then say, okay, if I had the chance to do my own business with a clean sheet of paper, that's the area that I would really want to focus on. Because I think it's from a sort of human good and human health, human wellness. That's the most important thing to do. And I think that there's an ability to make a contribution with a clean sheet of paper where you didn't have a legacy of a lot of things going on. And it just felt like an important life adventure to take.  

[00:02:43] Debbie : You spent 30 years in skincare. Big companies like J& J and Nestle. How did that corporate experience shape your strategy for building Minu? Were there skills or frameworks that translated seamlessly? And on the flip side, were there aspects of the corporate playbook you had to rethink or adapt as an entrepreneur?

[00:03:03] Adam: it's a bit of both because number one, I think that what corporate,good corporate culture, which not all good corporate culture is like that, but good corporate culture teaches you discipline around really understanding how to scope need, how to size a market, how to really understand a consumer and how to meet their needs in a compelling way. There's all kinds of resources and ability to dive deep into all of those aspects that were really important in terms of shaping how you look at a problem and how you would then on your own sort of frame it out using the methodology, the discipline and the rigor that large companies can bring. The flip side is obviously is the bureaucracy of a large company that there can be a lot of time thinking and thinking and a lot of cooks in the kitchen. And there can be the mitigation of risk because you're talking about a very large entity that is taking a bunch of bets, and they don't all need to hit. On the flip side of it, I think the weakness was the innate sort of scale. They really have to peel away all that and say, how would I do it in a nimble, disciplined single-minded way because you're flying without a net at a very small company. So the scale is completely different and the risks are completely different.

[00:04:20] Debbie : So what I hear from you is being an entrepreneur allows you to be much more agile, nimble, and then also the appetite for risk taking, taking away the bureaucracy part. So what was the inspiration behind creating Minu and what unique problems are you solving for your customers?

[00:04:39] Adam: In the long span of the history of skin care, it's not new that Sun care is the foundation of daily good skin care habits. But what is new is the concern around the category of sun care that over time it's actually gotten worse in terms of level of consumer frustration, dissatisfaction, their expectations have gone up not just what sun care can do, but what all of skin care should be doing. And that means in terms of performance, efficacy, safety, experience, their understanding of what that means in order to build an affinity with the brand needs to be much more holistically considered. That was the opportunity in the startup world is with the idea of a clean sheet of paper to do everything purposefully and disciplined and foundationally as a brand promise, not just a product promise, but a brand promise in terms of how do you reshape what is problematic in this category, especially when it comes to sun care around so many aspects around safety, performance, efficacy. How would you address all of those going forward together?

[00:05:49] Adam: And that's where it was an honor to put together a team of people that I met at Nestle. Christine, who is experienced in venture building and sort of [00:06:00] entrepreneurial thinking in a modern day setting. A friend who I worked with at Neutrogena, who was a lead formulator, not just for Johnson & Johnson, but for the entire category that she's very famous and very well respected. And a dermatologist out of Stanford. And coming together and brewing the idea in terms of like, how would you then all the new puzzle pieces of what are the new consumer expectation together in the single minded proposition. And that was really the challenge and the fun of this sort of cleanly thought through brand promise that was going to be solely focused on this idea about reimagining what's most foundational in skin.

[00:06:40] Debbie : Building a brand from scratch is no small feat. How did you approach the early days of Minu from ideation to creating your first product?

[00:06:52] Adam: I very much still see us in the very early days of Minu because we're still just a year into market. But at the earliest stages, when we were still [00:07:00] conceptualizing the brand, it was a lot of discussion back and forth through the team in terms of refining, what does it mean to set a new standard, and that was irrespective of what our brand was going to do. It was understanding from an industry challenge and with the expertise that we had at our disposal, which was unique in terms of the depth of experience from the entire team, thinking through with a very considered mindset of understanding what are the global problems in sun care?

[00:07:29] Adam: What are the global consumer frustrations? And thinking it through, but then also having the ability to have a formulator and a dermatologist on our team to then iterate and constantly refine the core technology, the core value proposition of the brand and our flagship product to make sure that we were addressing it as a core IP problem. Meaning how would we create a core technology to underpin everything we would do at Minu. We call it the Mineral Superblend and I think [00:08:00]unlocking what that was going to mean and do, and then making sure that was going to be foundational to everything the brand did. That time that we took what was, at the earliest days, we were like, 5, 6 years out when it was just myself and our R&D lead, and then about 2 to 3 years as we got closer to then iterating the formulation in terms of, setting the standard, understanding the IP, and designing it to deliver against the standard that we test, not just to the US standards, but to European standards and Asian standards to say. How would we create something that was going to be world class? And I think that was the time that we spent from conceptualizing the brand all the way through at a formulation level to say, what would that mean? So it was very practical in terms of then the technology is the embodiment of what the brand was going to stand for.

[00:08:52] Debbie : Can you explain to us the science behind your signature Mineral Super Blend technology and how it differs from traditional sunscreens?

[00:09:01] Adam: That was really the crux of the problem that we were trying to solve going to market because I think there's the general idea of between number one sun care becoming more and more important as a daily activity, not just a recreational activity. But then underneath there, there's the idea around there's chemical sunscreens and there are physical sunscreens or mineral sunscreens. Minerals being the physical because it's a physical reaction of reflecting light off of your skin versus chemicals absorb it, convert it to heat and release it. Its fundamentally thinking through the category in terms of saying from a safety point of view, more and more consumers are gravitating towards mineral base because it is the one core technology around the world that is trusted and proven safe and effective. It really isn't questioned. The only question in the entire industry is usually about the size of the rocks in terms of nano sized particles that could get into your bloodstream. But as long as you're dealing with particle sizes that are larger [00:10:00] than that, that can't get into your bloodstream, that do sit on top of your skin, then that's more and more what consumers want in terms of efficacy and safety. But they don't like the aesthetic. 

[00:10:10] Adam: So underneath that, there's also a performance difference between chemical and mineral. Mineral tend to be very stable protection, but more narrow protection in terms of the breadth of protection across the UV spectrum. So what we wanted to do was blend all of these things together in terms of, like, why were chemical sunscreens invented?

[00:10:27] Adam: It's their aesthetics and the breadth of protection. We wanted to make sure we were taking that into the mineral world so that our breadth of protection is just as broad as the best chemical sunscreen in Europe or Asia. Period. From a safety profile, it's next level in terms of we wanted to design it to Credo clean standards, which in the United States is the leader and thought leader in this clean beauty movement in terms of like really mitigating the materials you're using in the formula and [00:11:00] eliminating a lot of the ingredients that 99 percent of the sunscreens around the world use, we did not use. And so the mineral superblend is making sure that we have the performance, meaning best in class protection across Europe, US and Asian standards of UV protection, breadth, safety from a Credo standpoint, in terms of clean. But importantly, the beauty and luxury of high performance skin care that we have. Vitamins, minerals, peptides, even, to make sure it feels like luxurious skin care. And usually that's the trade off that the mineral super blend is solving for, is usually you get one of those three things, two of those things, but really putting those all together in terms of like best in class efficacy, best in class safety and best in class for luxurious skincare aesthetic. Putting those together as a foundation of what this mineral super blend can do.

[00:11:54] Debbie : That sounds like a really good ingredient combination. globally, sunscreen market is in flux, facing both regulatory hurdles and shifting consumer preferences like texture and even environmental safety. We're seeing a definite rise in mineral sunscreens with brands like Minu skincare leading the charge, but what's really driving this trend and what do listeners need to know on how to choose the right mineral sunscreen for their needs beyond just mineral versus chemical.

[00:12:24] Adam: This is an important shift in the industry because it's new. It's definitely new because the oldest technology and the original technology in the category of sun care was mineral zinc and titanium were the first two approved ingredients to be used worldwide when it comes to the sun protection there all the way going back to ancient Egyptian times.

[00:12:43] Adam: That's the technology that was used. So the influx in the 70s and 80s, 90s, 2000s of chemical sunscreens, especially in Europe, where new and newer technologies arose, gave everybody better aesthetic performance [00:13:00] but also better breadth of UV protection performance. But at the trade off and concern around chemicals, because I think chemicals stepping back, it's not just a concern about sun care, it's chemicals when you think about your life. And so I think that what this intersects is the mega trend of wellness and people being much more concerned about what they put in their bodies and on their bodies, and that's the trend that making it ever more important why mineral sun care, which if you talk to any dermatologist around the world is usually their preferred technology and why is that? It's because it has the durability, the proven track record for decades and decades from a safety point of view. Again, I think that's where the safety point of view, as it relates to consumers ideal for wellness of using something that feels safer to use for yourself, for your family is important. But when you're looking at mineral sun care, it tends to be the [00:14:00] aesthetics are the first thing you're going to notice in terms of Ooh, I don't know if I can take the trade off of how it feels. And the other element is the breadth of UV protection so that when you're considering mineral, obviously we're big advocates of that is making sure that it has broad spectrum UV protection and making sure that you're actually trying it because the other more cosmetic fundamental insight from dermatology is consumers will use the sunscreen that they love wearing. So making sure that you're comfortable. That it feels pleasant. It's part of skin care. It's a pleasant experience. It's something that's aspirational that you're actually going to want to use it. That comes number 1 because everything when it comes to wellness is. Wellness and health is a habit that you stick to daily, and underneath that, it's really making sure it's got the breadth of SPF protection in terms of UVA, UVB. We even do blue light and infrared. There's a lot more improvements that we've made in terms of how far you can go. And then again, just making sure as clean as the formula can be is the better it can be in terms of the overall profile of what we should be using in skin care, I think is an important evolution in the category that the legacy brands haven't caught up to yet.

[00:15:11] Debbie : I love the fact that your product not only protects the skin from the sun, but also, blue light. I think that's a great added protection. As a consumer, finding a mineral sunscreen that checks all the boxes, effective protection, beautiful texture, no white cast. You know, it feels like searching for the holy grail of skincare, knowing how tough that is.

[00:15:33] Debbie : What were the biggest hurdles you faced in creating Minu's formula? What was the hardest part of balancing that efficacy story and that elegant wearable feel that consumers are looking for?

[00:15:46] Adam: We did have the benefit of all this R&D expertise internal. But we also gave ourselves the benefit of time, meaning years. And so what we would do, what the hard work really was, what we talk about first and [00:16:00] foremost is not all minerals are created equal.

[00:16:02] Adam: So making sure we're sourcing the best quality zinc, the best quality titanium, putting them together as well as how we combine them with other ingredients. It's the preparation of the formula. That's what took time and testing. So that's where we would continually go back and test. Are we broad spectrum?

[00:16:21] Adam: No, not quite yet. Not to the European standard. Okay. Revise both on in terms of, like, how did it feel? How does it look on skin? Fundamentally it was always making sure that the breadth of protection, inclusive of even I should mention that we made the formula 40 minute water resistant. And the reason is not to go to the beach and use it, but it sets up beyond what most products do is a level of a durable film on skin that doesn't move, which means it's much better a shield for your skin over the day. And so making sure we were blending the core technologies, finding the right ingredients, the right preparations and the right ratios, and we had to do it iterate over and over. Literally, it's been hundreds of variations of the formula until you did get that balance.

[00:17:07] Adam: And, I can remember the moment where we got back the test results and said, yes, we finally passed broad spectrum everywhere around the world with an aesthetic that we love, which just took an enormous amount of time to get right.

[00:17:20] Debbie : Building a brand is never easy, especially when it comes to, you know, assembling the right team, raising the funding . What was the journey like for you? And how do you navigate some of those early challenges? 

[00:17:33] Adam : We're still deep in the thick of it being a year old in the market. Our North Star was number one within building the team. It was finding the people that had different experiences but had a similar passion for this idea about wellness mindset, about skin care at its best should be preventative in terms of your lifetime of health, not correcting and fixing and repairing. That means the damage has already happened. [00:18:00] And so finding a dermatologist who believed that deeply and wanted to get involved in formulation development. It was an obvious fit with a friend who had her own lab that wanted to be her head of R&D again, meeting my partner, Christine, who from becoming a mom, that really came to the fore in her life, not just being a venture builder at Nestle, but then understanding in her life how important it was and how much of a gap in the market. First of all, it was a like minded set of individuals. And then when we go to market, the thing that we've tried to do and are trying to do is this notion of delighting tastemakers. So it's a premium daily product that we've created. And so we want to make sure that it's going to those that are most knowledgeable and discerning the most credibility with their audience. And that was an example of launching with Credo, the arbiter of clean beauty or safe beauty in the United States. Makeup artists, dermatologists, editors and making sure that  we're focusing on sharing the brand broadly with them because we wanted the experts to endorse what we had done because of their depth of experience in having tried everything like why would I pay a premium for this product that isn't this just a commodity? And they could come in and say no and then help share with their audience all the benefits that we had packaged together in one solution.

[00:19:24] Adam : So I think that's an ongoing challenge is building that community of experts. It doesn't happen overnight. None of us are influencers with built in audiences that we're activating. We're creating that following, which takes trial and error. But underneath that, I think that the strategy around delighting tastemakers showing up in high touch retail venues that are very discerning of their assortment. same thing, making sure that we're talking to the editors that are deeply passionate and expert about sun care as well as, again, dermatological aestheticians. Spaces where there's expertise at the ready that then I think that helps drive the awareness and the credentialing of a brand that's brand new to market.

[00:20:08] Adam : But it takes time and there's a million things for us still to figure out. I don't want to pretend your one is perfect and everything's sorted out. It's continual being open, being humble, learning, shaping, sharing.

[00:20:22] Debbie : On your own personal journey as an entrepreneur, was there a defining moment where persistence paid off? And what did that teach you about staying on course?

[00:20:33] Adam : Well, it's been in the market a year. I've spent over six years of trying to find like minded group of people to actually want to work on this because it's not just me. It's a lot of people that have to then work together to say, let's spend time to craft this thing and bring it to market.

[00:20:47] Adam: And so that took a lot of time. That took a lot of I'm working with this person now. I'm not. I'm working with the other person. So finding the right team took a lot of effort. We've gotten some venture funding and that was an example of like, [00:21:00] we were trying to get to market. We didn't have enough money to get there.

[00:21:03] Adam : And luckily we'd found venture money that was interested again, like experts that they were looking for the best of the best in sun care and then saw what we had done. So that coming in very close to launch was a good proof point of never give up. That's the mindset you've got to have in terms of being smart, humble, and just keep trying and just keep sharing, believing that, especially now, as we got closer to launch and post launch, that you can see something that's tangible in terms of people can experience, like, why is this different?

[00:21:33] Adam : Why is this better? But then it's, you know, always looking to raise money, looking to find new audiences. It's a constant uphill journey in terms of clawing out some sort of meaningful, scaled mindshare and user base for the brand. And so that's persistence that just takes every, it takes every single day.

[00:21:52] Adam : You need to think through how is this going to happen? 

[00:21:54] Debbie : How do you stay motivated and focused especially during, challenging times?

[00:22:00] Adam : The thing I do most often is talk to other entrepreneurs that is helpful in terms of just understanding. It's not just us, It's everyone. In terms of building a brand, whether you're multinational down to a startup, This is hard. And so that sort of shared understanding of the framework of what you're trying to do. And then the other part that is meaningful to me is just looking back and saying, this was nothing. This was just an idea. This was just something of a personal passion. And then look at how far it's come. I think that's always exciting. Looking at what people have to say about the brand and the product, that's exciting to say. There is something here. It just takes time to nurture versus this is just make believe. And I'm not sure how this is going to come together.

[00:22:44] Debbie : So a year after your journey, now when you look back, what's that one lesson you wish you'd known at the start of your entrepreneurial journey?

[00:22:52] Adam: I think that I would have just given that again, we are brand new to market without a built in audience is just sort of that deeper breadth [00:23:00] around the amount of time that it's a multi year journey to get to a sustainable size business here to build from. So just that deep notion of this isn't going to be a one year and you're there, but just the patience and discipline to say this is a multi year journey and to pace yourself because especially in these early days, there's an enormous amount of testing and learning and understanding, how are you going to find that market adoption beyond, you've created a great product, a brand I'm very much proud of, but just the discipline around the time it takes and patience making sure you're trying to then save your money to learn along the way. Because it is a journey to find your space in the market versus if you're lucky, you can do it overnight. But I think what we're trying to do is something that's durable and lasting. And that just takes time with again, building towards experts. It's not like they're going to be convinced overnight.

[00:23:52] Adam: It takes time to build that relationship and that community around your brand. So making sure that this mindset of it's a multi-year journey and it will never end. It's just this stage of it. Initially establishing the brand, how long it will take.

[00:24:06] Debbie : Skincare market, is very competitive and there's always new brands out there. In your own words, how do you differentiate Minu from the rest? How does it stand out from the market?

[00:24:19] Adam: That was an interesting conversation, even pre launch where we've been doing online testing of the brand proposition and Sephora found us and was interested in what we're doing You know, they obviously see everything and it was through a conversation with them.

[00:24:32] Adam: Also a conversation within our team, especially our dermatologists in terms of saying, we don't just want to be different, it has to be simple and intuitive to cut through. And that's where we got to this idea of derm design, mineral based skincare. That's not something that everybody, or there are very many brands that commit to.

[00:24:50] Adam: There's an older one in the United States. It's mostly focused on cosmetic versus a skincare brand that's everything mineral based derm-designed, which starts with this SPF, then bringing this idea around intersection of exceptional protection meeting luxurious skincare and trying to keep it simple, straightforward.

[00:25:11] Adam: And again, this idea about this mineral based skincare for us feels differentiated from what's in the market, but also intuitive and simple that it can easily resonate versus too complicated of a story or not differentiated enough. We feel like that's our sweet spot.

[00:25:29] Debbie : And where do you see Minu in the five, ten years horizon? What are your plans in terms of expansion in the future?

[00:25:37] Adam: it's definitely expanding out the product line, expanding on our distribution footprint with discerning retailers. I think that we are lucky to have had Credo as a starting partner. They've been very impressed with our initial year one result. So continuing to build out our presence with other smart, disciplined retailer building at the line and fundamentally building out the consumer base where you do [00:26:00] begin to see Minu as a key relevant differentiated startup that there is some durability around and hopefully a larger team with more hands to help build it.

[00:26:13] Debbie : As a co founder, what legacy do you hope to leave behind?

[00:26:18] Adam: As a dad, I hope to show my kids that it's life is about doing things that are meaningful to you and sure that you're spending your time on what you're most passionate about. And so this was something that I had spent years and years thinking about and then showing them that here's Regardless of where this journey goes, just the willingness to then try.

[00:26:40] Adam: So I think that's always an exciting legacy is just to say that, lookI'm building something that's my own. It's something I believe in. It's something that I think isn't just fun or novel, but important has societal value and good. That helps push the mega trend of wellness forward when it comes to skin care. [00:27:00] All of those things are the things that I at least hope to be part of what comes out of this experience.

[00:27:04] Debbie : And what advice would you give to someone who is passionate about skincare and wants to start their own, brand with a purpose.

[00:27:11] Adam: Number one, be humble, be patient, listen. Talk to as many people as you can. Filter the information from your point of view, Be Passionate about what your core idea is. Think it through, think through the numbers and then be patient. Learn and it's always test, learn, adapt, test, learn, adapt and making sure that you've got enough runway to learn because rarely is it going to be perfect right out of the gate.

[00:27:36] Adam: So be patient with yourself. Be open. Talk to as many people as you can. And then the last thing is just be kind with yourself, because you're not going to get it all right. Most likely it takes time to get it right. And so just have the patience and kindness to yourself that's going to be a process.

[00:27:53] Debbie : Patience and kindness. We all need that.

[00:27:56] Adam: Right!

[00:27:56] Debbie : If you could leave our listeners with one key insight or [00:28:00] mantra that has guided you on this entrepreneurial journey, what would it be ?

[00:28:04] Adam: just believe in something. I think really spend the time to feel like what do I believe in, what do I think is important in my life, then number two is what can I do about it. Because it's all too easy to get lost in the shuffle of life and forget about the fact that this is a limited time offer and what do I want to do, what do I think is going to be important regardless of the outcome.

[00:28:25] Adam: What are the experiences that I want to build in my life that I think are going to be most enriching for myself and those around me.

[00:28:32] Debbie : Adam, it's been a real pleasure having you on Skin In The Game. You've given us fresh perspective on suncare . cutting through the noise of complicated routines and bring it back to what truly matters daily protection and long term skin health. It's a powerful reminder that sometimes simplicity is the smartest choice.

[00:28:53] Debbie : And beyond that your journey with Minu proves that it's never too late to follow your passion.

[00:29:00] Adam: Thank you, Debbie. I really did appreciate the time.

[00:29:03] Debbie : Likewise, for everyone listening who wants to learn more about Minu and their products, we've got you covered. You'll find all the links and resources we discuss in the show notes. that's a wrap for today, but before you go, thank you for listening. And if you haven't already, hit follow so you never miss an episode.